The Line Creek Loudmouth

Development at 152 and Platte Purchase

After dropping $36M of public money into a pay to play sports complex it's nice to see some development happening at the Platte Purchase and 152 interchange.  I don't get that way much since the Green Hills Road project has changed my travel patterns but there are some things happening near Costco™.  On the northwest side of the interchange, a new Floor and Decor™ store is underway.  For reference here is the approved development plan location.

The development site looks like it's set up to have a gas station at the corner of the WB 152 off ramp in the lower right part of the map.  The flooring store is along 152 and will face Platte Purchase (purple highlight).  A coffee or small drive through is along the middle entrance off Platte Purchase and two restaurant like pad sites at the SEC of Platte Purchase and Fountain Hills Drive.  It has another large box store (probably grocery size tenant) facing to the north (yellow highlight).  The red lines in the map were from a preliminary submittal showing pedestrian pathways.

This is what it will look like from the south along 152.

This is what it will look like from the front towards Platte Purchase.

On the southeast side of 152 and Platte Purchase, if you've driven by you've seen lots of grading happening.  There is an apartment project being built that will be west of Platte Purchase between the YMCA Challenger Field and Pathfinder Elementary and Barry Middle Schools. The site map on aerial below is oriented with north on the right, Platte Purchase on the bottom, and the road in front of the schools on the left and top.

The plans shown to the City Plan Commission show that the apartments will generally look like this.

The clubhouse right off the entrance from Platte Purchase is supposed to look like this.

It looks like most of the rough grading is done and they have some footings for one of the buildings on the backside started so I wouldn't be surprised if they are done this time next year.  I think these apartments will be a hit.  You've got easy access to two schools, the very underrated Barry Platte Park, the Route 152 Trail with its access to everything and the Line Creek Trail, and the YMCA Challenger Field which I was at with my kids tonight.  That field is always open and we often wind up in a football pick up game with other kids and families.  It's a great park for everyone and we really need to thank Trent Green, Mark Teahen, Fred and Shirley Pryor, and the YMCA who raised a bunch of private money to build a park that all the public can use.

 

Latest Metro North Mall Plan Change

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say right?  I mean I should be able to say something about the Metro North Mall redo with it's lucrative TIF financing package but I don't.  I mean I look around at floundering or ho hum retail developments all over and wonder why we keep doing what we've been doing when the market wants residences and employment integrated with it. 

Metro North posts were such a big hit when I started this blog that I created its own tag to make all the posts easy to find.  The lack of progress has bored me so I haven't bothered giving time to writing about the many plan changes since the TIF plan was approved because I didn't think the redevelopment had any viability.   It's just a monument to asphalt parking lots and cheap retail property.

There is a development plan that I think is a step in the right direction that was recently approved by KCMO on the old movie theater site (away and separated by a massive road and parking lots from the retail).  It's the dark green area in the map below.  All these renderings were pulled from the attachments for KCMO Ordinance 200369.

One thing to note is the plan and map show a future street connection over US 169 which is not feasible from an engineering perspective.  How do I know that?  Well I did a rough design of it and it won't work with the golf facility built as it was.  Someday maybe there will be a trail crossing but it needs some money and apparently there wasn't enough money in the $71M TIF to help finish the Route  152 Trail over US 169 and make the center accessible by something other than car and connect Clay County to our awesome, connected Platte County trail system.  A trail overpass project has some federal money that would be leveraged and just needs some local funding.

Here's another site location rendering looking northwest.  There's that unbuildable car bridge again.

What's being proposed is a five story office building.  It's been rumored to be a possible location (along with a few other sites) for the relocation of the FBI building at Summit and 14th Street downtown.

I know you're here for my architecture review of the project but in this case the architect for the project used to live in the dorm room across the hall from me at the University of Illinois and could share some very hilarious and juvenile stories about the Loudmouth.  I'll just say that this is the best building I've ever seen designed and he should be hired to design all your buildings.  All other architecture is trash and you're just wasting your money if you hire anyone else. 

Below are renderings that show the height of the building compared to the golf nets.  Let me just say, I kind of wish it was taller.  Those golf nets have become the defacto skyline for the northland and it would be nice to have a building with vantage of the two county area.

This is a step in the right direction from a land use standpoint.  I just wish the powers that be would see the upside of developing a real mixed-used development with 5000+ permanent residents who could support the retail in the area.  If people aren't driving to Zona Rosa for the nuance and compactness and Barrytowne is across the highway with plenty of big box space, what makes anyone think that they'll come back to what basically is every other shopping redo in the area? 

That's the problem with approving private infrastructure only TIF's like this.  The Antioch and Bannister Mall sites sat for years with TIF plans in place but no incentive or timeline for the redeveloper to use them.  We're going into the latter half of this TIF's first decade with nothing but rubble and a golf place to show for it.  I guess I shouldn't be so pessimistic.  The leases at Zona and Tiffany Springs Marketcenter are now over 10 years old so I'm sure some of those tenants might find themselves a sweet deal to move to Metro and fill out the space.  In the meantime, Metro North Crossing is still a just another suburban big box/strip mall/parking lot monument and will continue to bore me.

Holly Farms and Northland Christian School Site Plans

In case you were wondering what the new Northland Christian School being constructed south of the cemetery on the SWC of US 169 and Shoal Creek Parkway will look like, I'm finally going to show you.  In case you don't know where/what I'm talking about here is a map with the school site hatched.

The school has grown to the point where they are now a Class 1 MSHSAA team (and even won a state championship) and are planning on being in the Northland for a long time with this campus.  The new site will have sports facilities and building which will have great visibility and frontage on US 169.

The building will be a very simple yet functional building.  I guess when one is using donated and not taxed dollars there is an incentive to keep it simple (cough cough ahem public schools cough cough).

In addition to the school, the rest of the property to the west is coming through as a new subdivision which will have single family homes and will be marketed as "Holly Farms."  Shoal Creek Parkway is to the top of the plan and US 169 is to the right.

What's cool about this project was the first time it went through the entitlement process it had a three lane wide NW 107th Street because it was supposed to be a collector street and "the book" says it should be that wide.  However, there is no need to park nor any turning movements (see cemetery to the north of the street) so city staff contacted the developer and everyone agreed to make a two lane street but make the sidewalk eight feet wide vs "the book" standard of five and then widen the sidewalk from five feet to ten feet along future N Holly so that there could be a trail that would connect the neighborhood and new school to a future Twin Creeks trail system.

Ultimately folks who buy in this neighborhood (and those of you in Bristol) will be connected to Second and Line Creek Trail systems as shown by the purple lines in the map below. 

Who says the public sector can't work with the private to get enhanced walk-ability/bike-ability and reduced impervious pavement and unnecessary asphalt government can't afford to maintain!  If you want to read the Twin Creeks report, click this link to the KCMO open data site to download.  In the meantime, it's about time some of the farm ground goes away along all of this infrastructure we've built.  We've got to have some sort of tax base to pay for all of it.

Another QuikTrip™ Redo?

Well ladies and gentlemen, I thought I'd share a post because it's been a while.  It's been a busy summer and I'm in the middle of a laundry/garage/bath remodel that is taking a lot of time. 

I love wiring. I've wired outlets I've never used nor needed just because someday I might. pic.twitter.com/TwnsAj7xUB

— Wes Minder (@WesKCMO) July 8, 2017

I must say it's been fun to do actual real work and build some stuff.  However besides doing that project, I got to build something this weekend back in Illinois because my mother has cancer and it's not looking good for her.

Well it's not ADA compliant @mbconger but at least my mom can get out of the house. 9AM to 1AM then 3 hours this morning to finish pic.twitter.com/pXStjTPlJ9

— Wes Minder (@WesKCMO) July 23, 2017

I figured I'd do a post tonight and it looks like the QuikTrip™ at NW 68th Street/US 169 is going to expand across the street.  I vehemently oppose this effort and will do absolutely NOTHING to stop it because it really does need more slushie choices.  The boys love going into the new store in Riverside because it has all sorts of flavors. 

Why do I vehemently oppose it?  Well on Sunday mornings on my way to church at Antioch Bible Baptist Church in Gladstone on NW 72nd Street, we always stop so I can get my frozen coffee slushie and the boys some doughnuts.  It's great to be able to pull a right in then a right out and be able to zoom in for service.  Since the world revolves around me, I think this is the most fundamental change we will see in the Northland in 2017!!!

On a completely non-sensical segue (much like the above paragraph), we had a great turn out at the bike drive that BikeWalkKC did at the church a couple of weekends ago.  Thank you everyone who participated and helped fill a truck for their "earn a bike" program.  We added a few more including a couple of bikes from Representative Corlew who got there just as we were finishing.

I was a little concerned at the start of the day but I think it was worth the effort pic.twitter.com/TOaa3NtVwj

— Wes Minder (@WesKCMO) July 15, 2017

Keeping off topic, tomorrow (Saturday) is ABBC's annual clothing give away so if you know of any families in need, share this link.

Now back to the topic subject.  The new store will tear down the gas station on the north side of NW 68th Street and build a bigger store as shown with the hatched lines below.  I put the logo where the existing store is located on the south side of the street.

The store will look like........every other store they are rebuilding because building the same building everywhere is a great way to save money in operations and construction costs (cough take the hint and some notes government cough).

The site will have a new entrance onto the long term care hospital and keep the existing gas station driveways.

I'm not sure on timeline but I bet that once they get zoning approval, they'll get to work and have it open as soon as they can.  I, of course, am going to have to make some major Sunday morning adjustments because turning left to get into the store and then turning left to get out is going to add like a minute to our drive and we all know in this town having to wait for more than ten seconds to get anywhere in a car is the end of the world.......

Minor delays are critical because this is what I am like before I have my coffee slushie in the morning.............

 

Clip credit to Mike Judge and Viacom™.

The Vacant K-Mart™ on Vivion FINALLY Being Redeveloped?

Almost five years after one of my first breakthrough blog posts about the Antioch Mall area, the big box, long vacant K-Mart™ on Vivion Road might be finally redeveloped.

It's going to become some junior big boxes and a couple of outparcel buildings.  It also will add a stormwater detention basin which will be great for reducing flows and velocities downstream since the old site lacked anything to mitigate impervious surface runoff.  In the site plan, Vivion Road is at the top and Chouteau is on the right.

Here is a larger site plan to zoom in and see sizes of buildings.

It appears from the building renderings that Hobby Lobby™ is going to anchor the center.  Rendering 1 is the front or north face of the old store.  Rendering 2 is a zoomed in rendering of the same north face but the left or east half which is closer to Chouteau.  Rendering 3 is the right or west half which is closer to Antioch.

This was long rumored to be a location for the saving big money home improvement store but it appears from this, that will not happen.  Meanwhile, take some time this weekend and get lost in the woods before everything really comes out of the ground.  It will put a smile on your face.

This is @KCMOParks Platte Brooke Park which was developer dedication & preserved as green space. Standing in #linecreek#linecreekvalley pic.twitter.com/1Knc5lHZ4E

— Wes Minder (@WesKCMO) April 8, 2017

Are We Getting a New Wal-Mart™?

Don't forget tomorrow is the big April election day and in case you missed my Park Hill School Board Picks and Why I'm Voting No On the School Bond take a look at it.  Don't walk into the voting booth uninformed.  I'll link to The Northland News™ for sample ballots because they already did the work of finding the ballots for you

Are we getting a new Wal-Mart™?  I don't think so because it doesn't look big enough but it looks maybe like it's more of a grocery store chain from Iowa.  The designer on the plans is from Washington, MO.  Either way it's going to make my urbanist readers sick to their stomachs and require a car for anyone to get to work at it because it's a large retail box store in the middle of farm fields.  A zoning request is in process on the southwest corner of I-435 and US 169.

The preliminary plan calls for a large retail box with pharmacy drive-thru with quite a number of stalls.  It will be accessed with a new intersection and traffic signal where the US 169 ramps intersect Cookingham.

 

Here is a more zoomed in view of the large box store.

The development will also have a gas station right up against 169 and Cookingham along with two outlot parcels sized for a fast food drive through or bank.

 

I've been doing some research on large box retail stores.  With all the closings announced in the past year and seeing more articles how Amazon™ is disrupting American retail, I wonder how many more large boxes we will see on the fringe in the coming decade.

It's also another chance for me to encourage you to check out the Strongtowns.org website and ask you to question conventional thinking about economic development.

 

 

Schlotzsky's™ Trying Liberty Again?

Before kids, we frequented Scholtzsky's™ because their sandwiches were great.  However, the price for their kids meals weren't.  The store at 152 and Flintlock closed.  Coincidence?  Dear restaurateurs......kids meals should be $2.99 or less.  A box of mac and cheese is under $1, hot dogs with buns are less than 50 cents, and a PB&J can't be more than a quarter so stop charging $5 or whatever.

Anyways, they are trying the Liberty side again with really awful access.

So how good are you at U-turns?

Looks like any other fast food restaurant.  This is what it will look like from the north and west.

Here's the south and east.

I saw an ad for $10 per hour at a local fast food place so I'm hope when they open they can get some qualified staff to help.  It'd be bad if a guy like this winds up at the job......

 

Clip credit to Sony Pictures from the Married with Children show.

 

Dairy Queen™ Coming to Metro North Area?

I'm not sure we can attribute it to the proposed Metro North Crossing or the fact that it's a vacant pad site at a signalized intersection on North Oak across from the remodeled Barry Oak Center but Dairy Queen™ is coming through the zoning process to build a store across at NE 85th Terrace and North Oak.  This is the intersection a block north of Barry Road.

I don't have any fancy renderings because it's a simple cookie cutter store but the main access will be from NE 85th Terrace.  I'm not also in the mood for ice cream given it's the day after Thanksgiving.

I wouldn't plan on getting some ice cream anytime soon because I've heard of another deal that fell through but just remember to be good customers and not like these guys....

 

Clip credit to Mike Judge and Viacom™.

O'Reilly™ Coming to North Oak and Shoal Creek Parkway?

Looks like Casey's™ may be getting a neighbor and Autozone™ getting some competition.  O'Reily Automotive Group™ is coming through for zoning approval for a new store.

I don't have any renderings but here is the site layout.

I hear it will be the first of its kind in the KC metro.  It will have parts for all sorts of new fangled imports like the one Hyde keeps talking about.....

Clip credit to Carsey-Werner Productions from That 70's Show.

Proposed Assisted Living Facility Near Chouteau Elementary

This is another nice win for the North Kansas City School District as a long vacant piece of property south of Vivion Road is being planned for an assisted living facility.  Increased tax base without increase in students is always good for the kids.

The facility will be laid out like this.

The outside of the building will be simple yet nice.

Proposed Hotel along 435 near Parvin Road

I've always wondered why the area near Worlds of Fun™ never really took off from a retail standpoint.  That may be changing.  Mariott™ is proposing a Springhill Suites™ so folks have a place nearby to stay.

Here is where the hotel is being planned

The hotel has a square box architecture.

Lastly, the site layout will be something like this.

Nothing exciting except that a vacant piece of land will now be developed into a commercially zoned tax producer for the North Kansas City School District. 

 

The Liberty First Watch™?

First off, I don't know how well this location will do especially when you could eat at Ginger Sue's on the square in Liberty but some of you might not mind eating corporate breakfast rather than a mom and pop homestyle bruncheonette.  Anyways, another building is filling in the 152 corridor between Booth and Flintlock and the site plan lists First Watch™ on the drawing.

Here is the site plan with 152 at the top.

Renderings with respective directions.

No word on time frame as zoning submittals are just going in.  I'd make a joke but after my last joke Friday about Costco™ was roasted in the comments, I'll leave this one alone.  I never realized how passionate some people were about a random big box store full of foreign stuff with nauseating architecture and a massive environmental footprint.

North Oak and 96th Street Getting a New QuikTrip™

QuikTrip™ is planning a new store at North Oak and 96th Street in the northwest quadrant of the intersection.

The store will be situated at the corner of the intersection with a vacant lot to the north and new public street off of North Oak.  In the site plan below, the bottom is Tiffany Springs Parkway and the road on the right is North Oak.  North is to the top of the drawing.

It will be one of the next generation stores with the kitchen and open plan similar to the store in Riverside.

I'm not sure of the construction timing but the development plan is approved so the final platting is either in process or done.  What I do know is that it's in Clay County which is a county with a brewing, potential political scandal.

152 Bob Evans™ Redo

I was going through data junk and noticed I started some screen shots in early March about the proposed redo of the Bob Evans™ near 35/152.  Obviously I thought it worth of a post at the time but never finished it.  Unrelated comment, look how much land is wasted as parking lot (Strong Towns plug).

The building will be expanded to the east within the blue box.

The orange arrows show the crown that will be removed and the blue arrow shows the new expansion.

This is looking west and the orange arrows show the facade that will be taken down.

This will be the new south view of the building.

Here's the fancy color version of the south view.

 

Random Northland Residential Developments

Nothing exciting but looks like that farm field across the street from the New Mark Shopping Center is going to be no more.

Fountain Hills gets more houses and gets closer to building out.

Now this one gets a little interesting.  The infill between all the Clayton subdivisions looks like it won't happen as someone has bought the 80 acres to put a house on. 

However, they have to get zoning approval and have developed a "ghost plat" which from what's been explained to me is a plat that might happen in the future.  What it means is that all that original Line Creek Valley forest on top of the ridge will remain as is and someone will have a nice home and plenty of deer pooping in their yard.

What I Need Is More Pine Grove

The neighborhood that's a pain in the butt to get to is going to get a little bit bigger.

Here is the proposed next phase which is going north of the pool.

Not much exciting about it but since it's Saturday night, I figured it'd be a way to segue into a little more.....

Clip credit to Saturday Night Live.

 

 

 

Marketplace 152?

I thought naming every development "Barry____" or "Tiffany_____" was lame but I think naming something after a numbered highway takes the cake.  Someone is proposing the "Marketplace 152" which will be a commercial development at the NWC of the 152 and Indiana/Route 1 interchange.  I'm not sure who the developer is so I can't speculate if it will happen anytime soon or is just a site plan approval to help the owner sell the ground.

The site plan has some decent sized boxes with a 45,000 square foot grocery anchor which would be the size of something like a Wal-Mart^TM neighborhood market.

It also has the usual bank and convenience store pad sites so some day when driving up, you might run into this guy.....

 

Clip credit to Sony Pictures Television from the Married With Children show.

 

Staley Meadows Final Phase

Looks like the last unplatted part of Staley Meadows is going away.  More single family lots are being proposed. 

This new addition is north of the very wide Shoal Creek Parkway and split down the middle by some overhead powerlines.

It does have one thing going for it.  It is right next to the recently improved Anne Garney Park which gives me the opportunity to publicly thank Frank Gibbs with KCMO Parks and Recreation for developing that park on a shoestring budget and getting some very fun equipment to play on.

Zaxby's™ Is Coming To Town

If you are a conessuer of overpriced fried chicken sandwhiches, this is your lucky day.  Southern chicken chain Zaxby's™ is going to the northwest corner of 291 and I-35.

The restaurant is going to be right on the corner at the stop light but it's going to take some distance to navigate through the shopping center to get to the place.  I love how they have all their parking on the perimeter of the lot and the car lanes circling the building like a moat.  That is SO inviting for those of us who have little kids.  We love it when they get out and instantly yell at them to stop before they get away from the minivan. 

Note that the drawing is mislabeled as Route A when it actually is 291.

Signage is snazzzzzzzzzzzy.

I better stop making fun of the place.  They might send their mascot over to rough me up......

Clip credit to.......The Famous San Diego Chicken?

 

 

More Places for Highly Experienced Adults

As we learned yesterday with the Northland getting older, more product for our highly experienced residents is being proposed.  Two more assisted living facilities are being proposed.

First, someone is seeking zoning approval to construct some more assisted living product just north of Northland Cathedral.  It will be just to the north of the existing church and at the end of NW 99th Street.  Below is the layout with an overall context.

This is a more zoomed in engineering drawing.

The unfortunate thing about this is that the three lane NW 99th Street won't connect to N Wyandotte Street.  From what I understand neighborhood opposition to the connection prevented it from happening.  Unfortunately this means people will continue to zoom past the playground at Romey Hills Park on the overly wide three lane NW 101st Place rather than zooming down NW 99th Street which has no houses on it.

View larger map  |  Get directions  |  View bird's eye

Another proposed assisted living facility is located off of Shoal Creek Parkway just south of Route 152 and is going to be called Oxford at Shoal Creek.  Nothing too exciting about it.

 I'm sure they'll get some nice folks in there (I hope).

 

Clip credit to Warner Brothers from the movie Grumpy Old Men.

Northland Gets Older

Despite all the massive development north of the Missouri River, Platte and Clay Counties are getting older.  I don't have the details but the last time I looked demographics for a presentation, the median age went up from 2000-2010.  Keeping Platte County young by getting young families to move here vs KS or Lee's Summit (by building trails and playgrounds) is the only way to sustain housing values and our schools and stave off the inevitable suburban Ponzi decline.

This clip credit goes to Charles Marohn and the Strong Towns organization.  Now before you dismiss Marohn as some left wing loon, you need to know he's actually a right leaning libertarian or conservative on fiscal manners.  He actually does a great job articulating a lot of the positions I hold when it comes to responsible government.  I've never understood why a great deal of conservatives never question all the tax money spent on roads, military, and public safety.  Why is some government spending awful yet other is pure and free of waste and fraud?

Anyways, with the Northland aging, demand for housing for the less mobile will start popping up.  We are soon going to see that at the SEC of Ambassador and Old Tiffany Springs Road with the assisted living facilty.  Now it appears that another facility similar to the one recently opened along the Route 152 Trail near the Autumn Ridge subdivision.  Zoning applications have been put in for one along North Woodland just east of Anne Garney Park.  AGP is the newest Northland Park which has an awesome playground and some new walking trails perfect for still-active seniors.

Site plan isn't exciting.  Since it's the third facility up north by this developer, it looks like the architect/site engineers were able to save some money and time by copying the layout.

Renderings are black and white and boring (so it will fit in with the single family homes behind it).

I'm not sure if this is really a good idea to have a facility for older Americans at this location.  North Woodland is already dangerous enough as is.  I don't know if we want to put drivers like the one in front of Ferris's dad on that awful stretch of road........

 

Clip credit to Paramount Pictures from the movie Ferris Buehler's Day Off (which has the second best movie ending ever behind the Blues Brothers)

Country Club Shops Makeover Proposal

My alternate title was going to be "Crappy post WWII Vivion Road strip mall to get makeover" but that wouldn't have narrowed anything down.  The Country Club Shops which has been sitting vacant for some time has someone looking at a redo.  

Here is what it looks like today (and I notice it had a Jay "I supported the largest tax increase in Missouri history" Swearingen campaign sign).

 The proposed redo looks like it has a gas station component.

The biggest change will be a new facade.

Not sure when or if it will happen.  Appears from the zoning application it has a "UR" designation which in KCMO planning speak means Urban Renewal which means some sort of tax abatement plan.  Since it's in Clay County I really don't care as I've already spent enough brain power and time on this post but thought some of you might find it interesting.

New Development at 152 and Booth

Who's old enough to remember when there were no stoplights 152 except at I-35?  I know I am.  With stop lights comes hard retail corners.  With hard retail corners come primo pad sites.  We have more coming along 152.

View Larger Map  |  Get Directions  |  View Bird's Eye

A development plan has been filed to secure full access and allow comercial on the north side of Route 152 by the stop light at the Cheddars™.  Here's the big picture below and how it all comes together.

Here is a zoomed in view of the proposed new retail footprint.

 You can download the PDF here.  It's 10MB or so.

Download 152-Booth-Development-14132SitePlanExhibit20150619

I don't know who's being talked about going there.  I don't know the timing.  I don't know anything.  I been busy with football playoff games to referee (it was cold and wet Friday....) and haven't been paying much attention to much.......other than watching this video starting at 10:25

 

Clip credit to MLB.com.

Proposed Something at Brighton and Soccer Drive

Nothing exciting but looks like someone is planning on building a building at the NWC of Brighton and Soccer Drive. 

It's got some trees so I'm sure it will look nice in twenty years.

That's all I have to offer society with this one.......I'm sorry.

Powerplay™ North Getting a Zip Line?

The Powerplay™ North might offer another way for your kids to quickly separate your hard earned cash from your wallet.  They have submitted a zoning application for a zip line which will run north-south over the outdoor go carts and some future sand volleyball courts which will be built where the old Earl May™ building stood.

It appears the high end of the zip line will be on the north side of the site where the old Earl May™ was located and the low end and access platform will be on the south side of the go-carts.  I don't have a decent site plan and this was all that they submitted.  North is up and US 169 is on the left.

This is what the zip will look like from the east (if you were standing in the PP parking lot looking west at US 169).

This is the view looking from the west (from the bumble bee police station side of US 169).

I don't know opening dates or if this will come to fruition but since the zip line will be facing south, it will provide some awesome views of downtown KCMO and the Line Creek Valley if it ever gets off the ground.